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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 18, 2015 12:49:18 GMT -5
From what I can see in the pictures the hole in the top of the rod is so oil can feed the wrist pin by gravity from the top.It is hard to see from the pictures that you have taken so far but the piston oil hole is near the crank end on one side edge of the rod. Push a wire through the hole in the crank end and you will see where it comes out the edge. I got a little confused by that last part
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Post by gradyc on Jan 18, 2015 15:51:08 GMT -5
If you look at the hole in the crank end it is not drilled straight up the rod. It is drilled at an angle toward the side of the rod. In one of the last two pictures you posted you can barely see where it exits at the side of the rod.
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Post by montana on Jan 18, 2015 19:40:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure what grady is talking about, his theory doesn't make sense to me.
EDIT: my apologies to Grady, looks like you were correct after all.
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 18, 2015 22:22:10 GMT -5
If you look at the hole in the crank end it is not drilled straight up the rod. It is drilled at an angle toward the side of the rod. In one of the last two pictures you posted you can barely see where it exits at the side of the rod. It is drilled straight up. It exists the rod no where as it is solid, it pushes oil up to the bushing and oils the wrist pin then sprays onto the bottom of the pistons. I have the rods sitting in front of me right now.
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Post by gradyc on Jan 19, 2015 1:29:51 GMT -5
Looking carefully at the second picture of the second set posted you can see the hole is drilled at an angle to the left side of the rod and in the first picture of the fourth set you can just barely see where it exits on the left side of the rod. you can also see the thicker part of the casting where the hole is drilled angled to one side in picture 3 of the first set and picture 2 of the fourth set.
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 19, 2015 6:47:38 GMT -5
Looking carefully at the second picture of the second set posted you can see the hole is drilled at an angle to the left side of the rod and in the first picture of the fourth set you can just barely see where it exits on the left side of the rod. you can also see the thicker part of the casting where the hole is drilled angled to one side in picture 3 of the first set and picture 2 of the fourth set. I see what you're saying about the rod being drilled at an angle but that's cause the crankshaft is drilled at an angle, there is no holes in the rod though.
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Post by 83rangerguy on Jan 19, 2015 19:33:27 GMT -5
So now I'm confused again lol, do we have oil cooled pistons or no? according the pics it sure looks that way but Grady seems to think not....who's right?
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Post by aggieengnr on Jan 19, 2015 20:11:18 GMT -5
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 19, 2015 21:56:56 GMT -5
Well it turns out grady is right. I put the rods under good light and I saw the hole drilled in the side. So there is no oil galley in the rod. I never saw the hole before, my bad guys. But out of curiosity, I put the pistons back on the rods. They still are getting sprayed with oil. Oil cooled pistons, yes. The way I thought they were, no. The angle that the hole is drilled at, still does spray oil on the bottoms though. Still can't understand why they'd put a hole in the rod bushing off to the side though..
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Post by fatguppy on Jan 19, 2015 23:34:15 GMT -5
Yes, Perkins designed this engine as a tractor/industrial engine - the 4.154 was first, 4.135 second, 4.182 third. No, the hole is not designed to spray oil on the bottom of the piston (check the angle of the hole); it's designed spray oil on the cylinder wall to reduce wear and piston contact. Notice how it sprays on the load bearing side of the cylinder. Oil squirters are dedicated nozzles that are plumbed directly into the oil feed galley, not from a secondary source, like from the bearings. Perkins didn't install oil squirters until they made the 4.182 block. The oil squirters use more oil than the stock oil pump can handle. Pretty much every engine made has oil cooled pistons; cooling takes place via misting oil. (pg M2 of the workshop manual). Any oil that makes it to the wrist/gudgeon pin is there for lubrication of the full floating pin. The hole is drilled through the strongest and thickest part of the rod to minimize the chance of cracking, in-fact the rod has been slightly re-enforced in this area for this reason. If your pin bushings are worn, replace them. Not doing so will result in bushing and small end rod failure. You're spending all this money and trying to boost the power well beyond what the engine was designed to make and you won't replace a cheap bushing? ? That's dumb. It's like using worn out main bearings? For future posts, it would be better for everyone to make sure of your info before posting as gospel. Yes, there are new things to learn, but most of the time this is how bad info gets created and passed around. You're new to these engines and they have some subtle differences from other diesels. I've been rebuilding these things for over 15 years now and don't presume to know everything, but I have a pretty good handle on them. I've also noticed on the DieselPlace forum you've said quite a few things about the S2 that simply aren't true. Might want to be careful about that too. I don't like to give people wrong info, but I really hate it when people give me crap info just cause it sounds good or they want to be/sound right.
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 20, 2015 0:26:10 GMT -5
Yes, Perkins designed this engine as a tractor/industrial engine - the 4.154 was first, 4.135 second, 4.182 third. No, the hole is not designed to spray oil on the bottom of the piston (check the angle of the hole); it's designed spray oil on the cylinder wall to reduce wear and piston contact. Notice how it sprays on the load bearing side of the cylinder. Oil squirters are dedicated nozzles that are plumbed directly into the oil feed galley, not from a secondary source, like from the bearings. Perkins didn't install oil squirters until they made the 4.182 block. The oil squirters use more oil than the stock oil pump can handle. Pretty much every engine made has oil cooled pistons; cooling takes place via misting oil. (pg M2 of the workshop manual). Any oil that makes it to the wrist/gudgeon pin is there for lubrication of the full floating pin. The hole is drilled through the strongest and thickest part of the rod to minimize the chance of cracking, in-fact the rod has been slightly re-enforced in this area for this reason. If your pin bushings are worn, replace them. Not doing so will result in bushing and small end rod failure. You're spending all this money and trying to boost the power well beyond what the engine was designed to make and you won't replace a cheap bushing? ? That's dumb. It's like using worn out main bearings? For future posts, it would be better for everyone to make sure of your info before posting as gospel. Yes, there are new things to learn, but most of the time this is how bad info gets created and passed around. You're new to these engines and they have some subtle differences from other diesels. I've been rebuilding these things for over 15 years now and don't presume to know everything, but I have a pretty good handle on them. I've also noticed on the DieselPlace forum you've said quite a few things about the S2 that simply aren't true. Might want to be careful about that too. I don't like to give people wrong info, but I really hate it when people give me crap info just cause it sounds good or they want to be/sound right. Is it dumb? Yes, Do I want to do it? No. My dad wants the engine out of the shop, I need something to drive and I dont know if it will hold together anyways, and personally I don't think I need your opinion or approval on the way I do things. If you don't like what I've shared off of my observations "gospel" sorry that it's not correct nor did I state that I was correct, I was sharing what I saw on here to see if I was right with my thoughts. I don't see how I've really said things that aren't true about the S2, somethings that I've said aren't probably true but it's what I thought was correct and I was trying to see if others on there had any imput. If you just want to start a pissing match, I have no problem with not posting another thing to this forum, atleast the guys over at DieselPlace want to help, give ideas, or support someones projects/build.
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Post by fatguppy on Jan 20, 2015 10:00:01 GMT -5
I'm not starting a pissing match, I'm telling you that you are stating "facts" before verifying them. This is not beneficial to anyone. Do you like bad info? I don't. I hate it. I hate it when guys think that they know it all and that they are smarter than everyone else. You claimed to "discover something that no-one else has before"! That's not sharing/asking info to see if its correct.
...."I need something to drive and I dont know if it will hold together anyways".... You need something to drive??? So what...you're spending money on lowering compression, ceramic coating pistons, and compound turbo's instead of replacing basic parts that need to be replaced??? Hmmm. I don't get it...... In regards to opinion.....I personally don't care about your opinion....you're young, have very little experience with diesels, and yet you try to pass yourself off as the diesel master! There are guys here on this board that are way smarter than both of us and they have helped out tremendously. That info from them is invaluable, cause it's good info.
Am I the bad guy here? Sure, I'll be the bad guy. I don't really care, cause if I see BS, I'll call BS.
Oh, and news flash.....the guys at DieselPlace don't like bad info either.
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 20, 2015 12:23:59 GMT -5
I'm not starting a pissing match, I'm telling you that you are stating "facts" before verifying them. This is not beneficial to anyone. Do you like bad info? I don't. I hate it. I hate it when guys think that they know it all and that they are smarter than everyone else. You claimed to "discover something that no-one else has before"! That's not sharing/asking info to see if its correct. ...."I need something to drive and I dont know if it will hold together anyways".... You need something to drive??? So what...you're spending money on lowering compression, ceramic coating pistons, and compound turbo's instead of replacing basic parts that need to be replaced??? Hmmm. I don't get it...... In regards to opinion.....I personally don't care about your opinion....you're young, have very little experience with diesels, and yet you try to pass yourself off as the diesel master! There are guys here on this board that are way smarter than both of us and they have helped out tremendously. That info from them is invaluable, cause it's good info. Am I the bad guy here? Sure, I'll be the bad guy. I don't really care, cause if I see BS, I'll call BS. Oh, and news flash.....the guys at DieselPlace don't like bad info either. I don't see where at one point I claimed to have discovered anything, I put this on here to see if anyone else knows or would be willing to verify or not. Not to get bashed for something I didn't do? There's nothing wrong with the truck other than it needed a clutch so I pulled the engine, my uncle sold me it but told me I had to turbo it since he never had time to. Never tried to "pass" myself off as anything. I never "gave" info, I shared pictures with what I THOUGHT was correct. Never said it was. Which is why I don't tell someone something is the way it is unless I know for sure. Before I say something, next time I'll be sure to run it by you first! If I knew it was a fact I wouldn't have posted this thread. Once again it was for debate/verification. I'm pretty sure I never said it was a "fact", but hey you know what I said. I guess I'm just a brainless crackhead that can't even write his own name?
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Post by fatguppy on Jan 23, 2015 6:15:42 GMT -5
Ohhhh, crack!! That stuff is nasty! It's not good for you. It causes all kinds of problems. There's a guy down the road from me, and I'm sure he's on it. He is really messed up: always forgetting things, paranoid beyond belief, gets irritated at the weirdest things, and now has this nervous tick in the left side of his face. Yeah, not good at all!
On a side note tho, congrats to finding the red line info on the S2! You told the guys over on the DieselPlace.......let me find it....."The perkins manual shows 4950 rpm for it" (on your thread titled "Decompressing pistons") Cool. What manual was that in? I haven't been able to track that info down, so this is good. Now I don't have to worry about ruining my engine by over-reving it.
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Post by widetrack212 on Jan 23, 2015 10:56:01 GMT -5
Ohhhh, crack!! That stuff is nasty! It's not good for you. It causes all kinds of problems. There's a guy down the road from me, and I'm sure he's on it. He is really messed up: always forgetting things, paranoid beyond belief, gets irritated at the weirdest things, and now has this nervous tick in the left side of his face. Yeah, not good at all! On a side note tho, congrats to finding the red line info on the S2! You told the guys over on the DieselPlace.......let me find it....."The perkins manual shows 4950 rpm for it" (on your thread titled "Decompressing pistons") Cool. What manual was that in? I haven't been able to track that info down, so this is good. Now I don't have to worry about ruining my engine by over-reving it. Guess you need to keep reading. If I'm wrong then you tell me what it is. Cause that's what my book says. I'll test it to see who's numbers are correct when mine is running as my buddy has a tool that shows rpm's. I'll be sure to never post on here again in response to your threads. Just seems like you're out to bash someone cause you don't agree with what their doing. It's childish. This is the last reply I'm putting on here to you cause I'm not engaging in this childish argument that you're trying to start. One minute youre talking about the oil cooled pistons, then my thread on DieselPlace, Me not changing rod bushings ( btw my machinist said they're wore a bit but they're still good), after that you're knocking what I'm doing with my truck. Look I'm glad you're happy with your truck and the power it has, but when you start knocking what someones doing and their ideas, you make it personal. Not in the name of finding "facts". Aka a "pissing match". Good day.
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